September 28th, 2006
Alan Watt on
"Sweet Liberty" with Jackie Patru


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Jackie Patru: Well, good evening, ladies and gentlemen.  Thank you for joining us tonight, here on Sweet Liberty.  It is Thursday, and it is the 28th of September in the year 2006.  Weíre on, not usually Thursday Nights, as you know.  Last night, Alan was our guest.  And we were in a conversation.  And I hoped that we would be able to pick it up this evening.  I donít know where itís going to go.  I donít know.  We never know anyway, do we Alan?


Alan Watt: Itís a long and winding road. 


Jackie: Itís a long and winding road and a wheel within a wheel.  And when we were closing, last night, Alan, my parting comments, I believe, you know, we do, we have, since 1998, have been on the air together a lot, and of course, the history that you have given us, and the people whoís eyes have been opened because of the information that has been imparted, and the one thing for me, that has been missing, as I said last night, it feels that each program, at least part of each program, some place in it, would touch on the spiritual issues.  Because, we have touched on so much.  I mean, there has been a lot of conversation about religion, and you have said without any qualms, without any ifs ands or buts, all religions are manmade, and they were made by man to control the mind, the beliefs, and therefore the behavior of people.  And the people who have listened, many of our listeners have begun to realize that the religion that they have selected for were born into, has been a lie.  And as I said, itís left a lot of people, and I donít have a count, my phone calls that Iíve received, letters Iíve received, but mostly phone calls, now that Iím not doing short wave anymore, people feeling lost, floundering, literally, because theyíre, they realize the religion, the lies that religions have been teaching.  And yet, what is there for somebody to hold on to.  What is there for somebody, and not another myth, you see.  And thatís why I asked if we could pick this up tonight.  I donít know where weíre going to go with it, or what you would be willing to talk about.


Alan: Itís a quandary really for people, because they generally jump out of one religion into another.  And thatís the standard path that they take.  And yet, I keep saying, over and over, if this is the place where matter and spirit meet, and since this is a very important place for it to happen, since itís the only place for it to happen, therefore what you do in this life is of utmost importance.  Therefore, you find your way towards one by living in the other.  You work your way towards something, which comes, which comes with time, if youíre doing all the right things.  Which generally are not just for yourself.  You help yourself as a side effect of doing the right thing.  And itís a complete reevaluation of everything which you held dear, previously.  The old story about dying the death to be reborn, was an ancient saying.  And itís ancient, and itís modern at the same time, because itís the same path, everyone must take, at least to start off with, where you truly look around all the things that youíve chased all your life, the younger ones are being chased to going after the same things at the moment, and you for the first time truly evaluate them.  And you make a distinguishing line between one and the other, what truly is important in this life.  And quite a few years ago, you remember, a guy phoned me in, and, I think, yeah, he phoned I think.  And he said, youíve got to get a computer Alan, he says.  This has become my best friend, my therapist, itís become everything to me.  And I said to him, youíll lose yourself in the process, I says, because you can die, and you can have that glass screen next to you as youíre dying, but personally, Iíd rather have a human hand holding mine.


So, weíre caught up in the time, where science has become the sub-god, you might say, of this system.  Weíve all been trained that if an expert says something, in a white coat, then itís the gospel truth.  And yet, science is taking us into a form of oblivion, for ourselves, albeit almost a painless one, eventually, as people go through the changes.  Theyíre already adapting to them.  But weíre losing every single thing, the uniqueness of being human in the process. 


Jackie: And what is the uniqueness?


Alan: And thatís the question that people have to ask themselves.  Do they want to go on this path, thatís already been chosen, by the elite for us, or are they going to start now, and standing up and saying no.  Thatís their personal choice.


Jackie: Saying no to whatís happening?  Is that what youíre saying.


Alan: To where weíre being directed, yeah.  We have lost so many things, just in the last fifty years, that we used to call our humanity.  We have lost the sacredness of life, number one.  Thatís why it was always held up, even in the courts they had to hold it up, because of the religious traditions, which at least had that correct, that life itself was a sacred thing.  Weíve watched ourselves being allowed.  Weíve actually helped, enabled it to happen.


Jackie: How?


Alan: All the way to abortion.


Jackie: How have we helped an enabled it, Alan?


Alan: Pardon?


Jackie: How have we helped and enabled it?


Alan: Because, because our own drives.  We were told, unshackle your drives, let them go.  You donít have to hold them back any more.  You donít have to be morally or personally responsible for your drives.  That was the first part.


Jackie: Well, yeah, but.


Alan: Then it was encouraged from the top.  It was called the Sexual Revolution was, do your own thing.  Thereís something there to take care of any fall out.  Donít worry just do it.  Then the next part, of course, weíve already seen the business thatís been flourishing quietly, and now itís in the open, to do with body parts and stem cells.  Itís a flourishing business.


Jackie: I know it is, but what does this have to do with.


Alan: And we think, we think, and we graze all through this, accepting it, until itís now normal.


Jackie: Alan, your talking though, with like a great big huge wide brush.  And like, everybody has accepted it.


Alan: Well, do you want me to be specific and name names?  Weíre talking to everybody, because everybody knows what I mean.  Most people have drifted through this as though it didnít affect them.  It didnít affect them.  And of course, it has affected us, because a lot of the listeners out there have already had inoculations, and they use fetal tissue to make them.  And their children have as well.  So, our silence, as we drifted through this Ď60s, Ď70s, and Ď80s period, has enabled them to go so far, and with every bit of our humanity we give away, it makes it easier to give the next part away. 


Jackie: Yes.  And once again, Iím not asking you to name names, but people who got vaccines, I had my two daughter vaccinated, Alan, not because I didnít care or love my daughters, because I didnít know any better.  And maybe when an individual finds out the dangers of these, and continues to do it, then they would fit in that group that is going along with it.  But not everybody goes along with this.  Not everybody does.


Alan: Youíd be surprised with how much people go along with so many things which are wrong, because itís over there that itís happening, or itís in another part of the country or whatever.  Everything comes round to each eventually; everything that happens anywhere on the planet, eventually comes round to us.  And this was something that was at one time understood.  Thatís why there was such indignation when something terrible was happening somewhere else, and we demand that it be stopped or whatever.  But today, itís almost as though everything is remote from us, because we have been depersonalized, scientifically, gradually, until even, say the family is pretty well non-existent today.  That too. Everything has been attacked with gradualism, and now the state has become the god.  Now many people saw this coming, and wrote about it.  Like I say, Carl Jung, who warned us all about the future we were allowing to happen.  But because it was supposedly the good times, the music, the sex, the drugs, the do your own thing, the shackles are off, it was so much fun to do it all.


Jackie: Are you, let me ask you this, you know, maybe, since Iíve been doing the broadcast, Sweet Liberty, Iíve had a sense of our listeners.  In the beginning, when I was on short wave, the majority of our listeners were fundamentalists, Christian, that you know, the Old Testament, the New Testament, dichotomy, every word was true, regardless, and itís come such a long way, that I, my sense of the people who are listening to this broadcast today, theyíre not listening out of a desire for entertainment, because the conversations are just too intense for people to be entertained by them.  I wonder would youÖ


Alan: I know that, but itís also people too, who want to hear what they want to hear.


Jackie: Well, do you think?


Alan: They also call me.


Jackie: They call you, yes, but the people that are listening to this broadcast, do you think theyíre listening, because theyíreÖ


Alan: Theyíre from a broad spectrum out there.  However, weíve all gone through the same things, really, I mean, pretty well.


Jackie: Well, yes, we have.  I was wondering if, tonight, maybe you would speak to an audience that you know, that a lot of them have come out of the lies are in a process of coming out of the lies, and I wonder if you would speak to that understanding that so many of our listeners are coming to, rather than throwing this out there, like you know, we all are the mass, and weíve all done this, and Iíve done things.  As I said, the vaccinations.  I had no idea.  And there was evidently within me, some, thank heaven, knowing that when the mumps and the measles and these vaccines came out, and I got the calls from the doctors office, I said, no.  I wasnít going to do it.  It wasnít because, oh, I realized that it is creating autism, or that there is Mercury in it, or aluminum.  People, many people, who vaccinated their children, did it because they love their children, and truly believed that it was the right thing to do.


Alan: Yeah, because they worship the white coats.


Jackie: I didnít worship white coats, Alan.


Alan: They were already trained.  I mean, I was a toddler when we got all the US reruns of Ben Casey and Dr. Killdare and all this kind of stuff.  Through drama the people were propagandized into seeing these people differently than they actually were.  And thereís more of it today than there ever was before, actually, with CSI and all the rest of them.  They give a fictional account.


Jackie: You think a great majority of our listeners are in that mode, in that frame of mind.


Alan: Thereís hardly a person that escaped the subtle indoctrination, itís very direct, that came through the TV era.  Itís given them so many opinions and all that.  It really has directed them in different ways.  Thatís what it was given out to the public to do.  Just as the computer followed it.  I always say that the tools we are given are really, the secondary effect is that we can use them, but never the primary reason that theyíre given out.  Theyíre given out for more control purposes.  Information has always been controlled, because you come to conclusions according to how much or what type of information youíre given.  But mostly behavior is done through fiction.  We emulate what we see.  And thatís always been understood.  So, see the people who are looking for answers, have to be responsible for the knowledge that they already have.  You donít sit with it.  You donít sit with.  Thereís no point in teaching someone to sit at home and purr like a cat.  You must use it.


Jackie: What does that mean?


Alan: Many people want comfort.  They want to be told, there, there, everything will be okay for you.  That, thatís, Iíll leave that to the New Age Movement, that tells them all nothing is real anyway, so donít worry about it, and life will just go on and on forever, for them.  That is what I mean.  People have to realize that here, as they walk the planet, they have a job to use the information they have.  And that means risking losing friends.  Theyíre not your friends anyway, if they walk away.  It means, you take the data, you photocopy it, you do whatever you can with it, and you pass it out.  I know people who do that. 


Jackie: I know you do.  And I do also.  So.


Alan: And they are concerned, not just about themselves.  Theyíre concerned about others.  And thatís what we have to hold onto.  Because the system has been trying for years to break that connection between people.  The ďIím all right JackĒ type society.  We must hang on to that, that need to share with other people our concerns for their sake, as well.  But you can teach people forever, who will never ever use it.  And thatís a waste of time. People have to use it.  Theyíve got to stick their heads up above the trenches and get the information out.  Even if you only eventually change five people in your lifetime, youíve done more than most.


Jackie; Yes.  And I donít know how many people youíve talked to, I would think that you have, that have listened to this broadcast, that have called you that have called you, that have called me, that have lost their friends, and their families, many people, lose their families because of it.  Thatís, what Iím saying is, that the mind that the heart of people that I talk to, theyíre not what youíre talking about right now.  And thatís why, and weíve talked about this, since 1998, and thatís why I was hoping maybe this evening that we donít do the general all over, you know, thatís what everybody does.  I donít, thereís many of our listeners that theyíve sacrificed, well, their friends and their family.


Alan: Theyíve not sacrificed it.  They were never yours anyway.


Jackie: No, no, it feels like, yes, but, you know what.  It feels like a sacrifice when it happens.


Alan: The change is within the person, and itís nothing to be ashamed of.  And itís definitely nothing to regret.  Truth has a price.  In everything in this world, thereís a cause and an effect.  And when you get truth.


Jackie: Yeah, I used the wrong word.  I did use the wrong word.  Sacrifice.  And I said, it feels like a sacrifice when it happened.  It is within them that they have an impelling urging to share what they know.  And because of that, theyíve lost friends, theyíve lost family.  Many of them, Alan.  Iíve talked, over these past ten in the half years, I couldnít even guess the number of people that Iíve spoken with.  They feel like loners.  They feel alone.  In fact, thatís a lot of times why they call, because they have sometimes to talk to somebody that they can relate with.  And thatís, thereís a lot of people in our listening audience, that fit that. 


Alan: Yes.  But you know, I donít see it the same way, you see. 


Jackie: You donít.


Alan: I donít view that the same way.  When you have broken away, and it will call it the mass, the stereotype.


Jackie: The what?


Alan: The mass, you might say.  The stereotype.  When youíve broken out of it, even though, youíll still see, even though youíll still see, or have a feeling for the old once and a while, you should really go on and be thankful, in a sense, to rejoice even, because thereís nothing more wonderful than breaking through.  Thereís nothing to compare with it.  You can have sadness at those youíve left behind, and the knowledge that theyíll probably always be there.  Not necessarily so, but probably, thereís a good chance.  But you rejoice in the fact that youíve broken through.  When you can break through this system, with all of the sciences behind it and the wisdom of the ages, thatís meant to keep you in a mental strait jacket from birth till death, when youíve overcome that, youíve overcome the world, and you can go on from there.  And yes, you wonít be part of the crowd, but thatís part of what you sought after.  When you look, donít ask for it on your conditions.


Jackie: Yes.  I found that out.  I found that out. 


Alan: Yeah.  You want truth with no attachments.  You donít want any guarantees.  And I say to people all the time, do you really want truth, are you sure?   And Iíll warn them.  Youíll never be the same again.  And Iíll say, whatís dear to you.  And theyíll tell me whatís dear to them, and generally by that I will go further with them or not. 


Jackie: In other words, what if they said, my family is dear to me. 


Alan: Then Iíd ask them, just how dear.  Would you be willing to sacrifice losing them?  And if they wouldnít.


Jackie: So, it is a sacrifice in your mind.


Alan: To them it is, not to me.  See, thereís a new belonging, you see.  You only belong with that which is on the same walk as yourself.  You canít go back when youíve opened Pandoraís Box.


Jackie: You can never go back, no.


Alan: No.


Jackie: No, I know that.


Alan: And so, you certainly, see, youíve left, as I say, the mass man, behind.  Youíve walked out of that room forever, and if you still have nostalgia, then that can play on you, and that can bring you down again.


Jackie: Nostalgia.


Alan: But you still canít go back, because you canít.  So you have a choice to work your way through it and realize that whether you like it or not, youíre not one of them anymore.


Jackie: And when that does happen, Iíve experienced it.  Of course, Iím not, you know, at that point where Iím walking on water.  When the tension comes between you and your loved ones and family, your children, or anybody in family, because of what you know, and because you are so compelled to share it.  And then theyíll say, oh, please donít start preaching again.  Well, Alan, that hurts.  And it seems to meÖ


Alan: And thatís why I always tell them, donít preach to your family, yeah.


Jackie: Well, is it preaching?


Alan: Yeah.


Jackie: Is it preaching when you find, oh, well wait a minute, how do you know itís preaching unless I say.


Alan: Preaching is when you are speaking on something, which they cannot possibly at the moment relate to, and they let you know it.


Jackie: In other words, if youíre talking about some new information you found out on a particular product they might be using, that is damaging livers, now.


Alan: To them, if they have no interest in it themselves, then youíre just being a control freak.


Jackie: Alan, isnít it a possibility.  I mean, this is a little bit of a double standard here weíve got, because we have to, as you just said, we have got to stand up.  We have got to do, share information that we have.  Maybe our responsibility is to say that, and then let it go, knowing that theyíre going to make the choice.


Alan: Yeah, but how many people do you know who can let it go?


Jackie: Iím talking about this particular situation, any particular situation where we finally realize that there are certain people who will and certain people who wonít.  And interestingly, when itís your family, and theyíre in your heart, it hurts even though, even though, youíre compelled to, it hurts.  And Iím not sure, because maybe I misunderstood, but it seems like what you said is, youíve got to get through that, and, you know, if you even have nostalgia, itís going to hold you back.  Does that mean, does that mean that we have to quit feeling, Alan? 


Alan: You have to be able to handle feelings.


Jackie: Pardon?


Alan: You have to be able to handle feelings in a different way.  And every, every.


Jackie: You mean it can hurt, and you can accept the hurt.  Do you mean that?


Alan: Yeah.


Jackie: Well, okay, fine.  But at least.


Alan: In every religion, in every single religion, you have the same allegories over and over and over that when the person changes, you never look back.  There are reasons for not looking back.  And in every, every, every single religion out there, all of them, when you change yourself, you belong to a different family.  Every one.


Jackie: Do you see, or I donít know, in your comprehension, I know itís difficult for you to relate, from, it seems, you know, youíre very beginnings, there wasnít much you didnít know.  But do you see, that people are in certain steps.  Everybody isnít at the same level of awakening or understanding.  And so, to take it to the very nth degree, and say if you canít do this, you may as well not even try. 


Alan: I wouldnít try to wake someone up who hasnít taken the first step themselves.  Asking questions outside the box.


Jackie: Okay.  We have to take a break here.  And folks, stay with us.  Weíre going to be back.


(Commercial Break)


Jackie: Okay, weíre back.  And Alan, are you there?


Alan: Yep.


Jackie: Okay, well, we were talking.  You had mentioned that sharing with people, and people whoís journey, if you would, to spiritual consciousness is, you know, on a different path.  Each, I donít mean different.  Maybe a different, a different level if you would on the journey.  And you said that you wouldnít even, not talk to somebody, but, I donít know what you said, but you said, unless they would ask questions outside the box. 


Alan: You wouldnít teach them something outside of their knowledge, their present knowledge, unless they were asking questions.


Jackie: Why would you have to teach them if it was already their knowledge though?


Alan: I just said, if they didnít have it in them.  That they were not expressing questions, the right kind of questions, then thereís no point.  If you try to teach someone who hasnít asked the questions, youíre actually nagging them.  Itís no different than a born-againer coming along, and preaching the gospel to you over and over.  Itís outside of their present reality.  They canít relate to it.  So you can only teach people, and I hear it so often, because the first thing they want to do, itís like conversion, you want to convert the person next store to you, or next to you.  And it ends up in chaos for them.  It makes a hell on earth for themselves and their wife or husband or whoever.  If you truly love a person, and you know where they are in their mindset, if you truly love them, and you know if theyíve been asking questions or not about, as I say, outside the box, if you truly love them, and they havenít been asking the questions, leave them in peace.  Youíre not loving someone when you start to nag them.  And thatís how they see it.  And that causes so much conflict.  Tremendous conflict.  And you have to be able to accept that that person might never have any inclination to ask the right questions, because they are making decisions.


Jackie: Iíve had, Iíve had experiences, well, actually, conversations with people, who have told me that I said something and they didnít get it.  And I said the same thing again, another way, and they finally got it.  But maybe it took several, several times.  Those were things I didnít know about, until I was told about.  But I donít see the difference in that, and in saying something, and leave it go after youíve said it.  Leave it go, because how do you know, at what point theyíre going to ďget itĒ, Alan.


Alan: Yeah, but youíre differentiating between just planting the occasional seed and leaving it, and then, wanting to save those around you.  These are two different things altogether.  Weíre talking about generalities with the occasional person, when theyíve listened to the radio or whatever, or theyíve already been asking questions, thatís why they listen to these kinds of shows.  So, theyíre asking questions.  Just by seeking theyíre asking the questions. 


Jackie: Exactly.  Thank you.


Alan: But other people, as I say, those right next to you, who like the idea of the world as itís been presented and reinforced to them.  You canít just walk in and say, ďHey.  Youíve got it all wrong.Ē  ďYou have to understand this.Ē  Thatís a typical expression theyíll use.


Jackie: Well, maybe it is.  Iím not talking about being that blunt.  Iím not talking about being that blunt, and saying youíve got to get this or else, or whatever. 


Alan: And as I say, in every religion, you have little keys to truths which are buried from the masses, because theyíre never really explained to the masses by the priests or preachers who are set up there.  And even in the West, for the Christian side, they have the same thing.  They tell you a little story, a little allegory, with a truth contained within.  And in the West, it was Jesus, and his family comes to visit, and wants to get to the head of the crowd, and right up to Jesus.  And heís told theyíre there in the audience, and he says, ďWell, who is my mother?  Who is my father?  Who are my brothers and sisters?Ē  Meaning, those of the same mindset were really his family.


Jackie: I think people will understand that.  Donít you?  That we have.


Alan: They might understand it, but they donít understand the truth of it, you see.


Jackie: You mean, the truth of the fact that those of us who are really family are of the same mind.  You think they donít understand.


Alan: Definitely, or theyíre walking on the same path.  Or thereís someone behind you somewhere.


Jackie: There you go.


Alan: But regardless.


Jackie: Yeah. 


Alan: Youíve broken out of the traditions.


Jackie: There you go, yes.


Alan: Youíve broken away from, youíve already broken away from what was supposed to be the set of norms, and you have to accept that you are giving up that.  And that was the whole point of truth.  There are no guarantees with it.  It doesnít say youíre going to have perpetual bliss.  Thatís for the New Agers that think themselves in fantasy, and purr, as I say, like a cat forever.  Truth will take you through mountains and valleys.


Jackie: And so will love, wonít it, Alan.


Alan: Oh, that too, because with everything, there are two sides of everything.


Jackie: Yes.


Alan: You canít truly have a picture of anything, unless you truly experience both sides;  the pain, the ecstasy, everything.  These are all growing experiences.  And itís out of all of these things that the spiritual side will develop.  You canít do it without it.


Jackie: The spiritual side will develop.


Alan: Yeah.


Jackie: Yes. 


Alan: You cannot bypass it.  You canít take shortcuts.  You canít just throw down money and say, teach me this.  And Iíve had offers.  One guy offered $140,000 if Iíd just give him the bottom line.


Jackie: The bottom line of what?


Alan: Truth and reality.


Jackie: Like you know it.


Alan: Yeah, hereís the money, give me my copy.


Jackie: And then, anything you say to him, heíll say, thatís it, because Alan Watt said it.  Thatís the guru.


Alan: Yeah.


Jackie: Thatís what I told you last night, Alan.  This isnít funny really.  It isnít funny.


Alan: But thatís how people are. 


Jackie: No, that isnít how people are.  Thatís how people are with you.


Alan: Thereís a lot of people, a lot of people are like that.  And if you think Iím wrong, just look at the professional gurus in California.


Jackie: Alan.  I know that, I understand that, but what Iím saying is, I said this last night that you have become like a guru to a lot of people. 


Alan: Yeah, thatís why I keep telling them. 


Jackie: And they think you know everything.


Alan: Yeah.  Thatís why I tell them, you know, donít become me. 


Jackie: Or believe everything I say.


Alan: You have to think for yourself.  That too, check everything.  And you must find yourself.  You must find who you are.


Jackie: Thatís good.  Last night, when we were talking, and I mentioned to you, some, and Iím switching us grossly here, but itís kind of in the same vein.  You had mentioned, back in May, in fact, I checked on the date, because I wanted to make sure.  It was the 17th of May this year, and that was when you said you talk to people one on one, and youíre deprogramming them, and then youíre reprogramming them.  And last night I asked you, who has the right to program anybody.  And you said, well, you know, the best you can do is to give them a place to go or a start.  And I said, is that what you mean by reprogramming. And you said, no.  And so, I wonder, when you talk about programming somebodyís mind, Alan, do you, or does anybody have a right to do it?


Alan: You do if theyíre completely, utterly at their witís end.


Jackie: Programming their mind.


Alan: Many, many of them are at their witís end.  Dangerously so.


Jackie: What does programming somebodyís mind mean then.  Because maybe Iím looking at it. 


Alan: When you deprogram someone, you canít leave a blank sheet, or youíve got a zombie.


Jackie: So you reprogram.


Alan: You give a basic there, a basis for them to begin with.  What they do with it is up to them.


Jackie: Okay.  So, youíre not really programming somebodyís mind.


Alan: No, Iím not.  Iím not indoctrinating anybody.


Jackie: Well, thatís what youíre said, youíre reprogramming them.


Alan: No, Iím not indoctrinating anybody, Jackie.  I know you want to believe that, because you keep saying it over and over, and Iíve told you Iím not doing that.


Jackie: No, excuse me, Alan.  No you said reprogramming, and I heard reprogramming, thatís why I asked you to explain it the way you meant it.


Alan: If someone asks you for reality, what would you call what you give them?


Jackie: If somebody asks.


Alan: A suggestion?


Jackie: Excuse me.


Alan: Is it a suggestion or a truth?


Jackie: If somebody asks for reality, I wouldnít know what to give them, because I donít know what is reality.  I donít.  Iím not there, Alan, you know, that I have every answer.


Alan: Well, what you give them, if they can handle it, is a basic platform to begin with. 


Jackie: Like.


Alan: And if they want to go on with it, they can carry on themselves, or they can get back to you.


Jackie: Okay.


Alan: But at least theyíve got more to stand on than they had before.


Jackie: Okay.  Well, that isnít programming somebodyís mind.  Not in the way I took it.  And thank you, Alan.


Alan: Itís not mind control.  Itís not mind control.


Jackie: Now, well, you used the word reprogramming, and you know, that has been such a topic of our conversations, how peoples minds have been programmed that when you said, I reprogram them, as I said, it slipped me by, when you first said it, and then I thought about it, and I said, wait a minute reprogramming. 


Alan: Listen, let me put it straight to you and then you can get off the topic.  If someone asks me for a truth, and theyíre in a bad way, Iíll ask them how bad they are.  Iíll ask them what theyíve already looked at.  Iíll see where the core of their problem lies, and if theyíre really serious, and I think theyíre in trouble, I will give them a basic, grounding to stand on.  But as I say, Iíd leave it to them where they go with it. 


Jackie: Thatís good.  That isnít programming somebodyís mind. 


Alan: Itís all semantics. 


Jackie: Itís a word that weíve used a lot, and you have to forgive me, Alan.  You gave me what I was asking for.


Alan: Jackie, you wonít let it go, will you?  We should move over this, and go on to the next thing, because itís explained.  Unless you donít think it is explained. 


Jackie: No, it isnít that I donít think itís explained.  No.  But it.  I know, but Iím going to say something else about it again, and then youíre going to say, you wonít let it go, will you.


Alan: But you wonít you see.  If something is your bondage, you wonít let it go.  If it wasnít bugging you, youíd let it go.  So, thereís another reason why itís bugging you.


Jackie: And maybe itís bugging you.  Maybe Iím bugging you, Alan. 


Alan: If you keep on about it, thereís an intent somewhere, which is different from what Iím hearing.


Jackie: Okay, so in other words, I wonít have the last word.  And then everything.


Alan: If thatí important.  If thatís important.  Thatís silly.  Yeah.


Jackie: You really have a way with words, donít you, Alan.


Alan: Not words.


Jackie: Yes.


Alan: Itís not words.


Jackie: Okay.  Alright.  Well, so, we have ten, about ten minutes left here.  Where do we go with this?


Alan: Well, the topic really is about a spiritual side of someone whoís breaking out of this conditioned reality, where everyone has had the same conditioning.  Minor variations, minor degrees of different things, maybe even abuse, because itís an abusive system.  And however, weíve all gone through the same spectrum road, you might say.  To be trained in the same things, the same ways of looking at things, the same understandings and conclusions, and thatís mass indoctrination.  Itís a lifelong indoctrination, where we donít have to think for ourselves.  The answers are debated on television by experts, and we pick the one we like best.  Thatís why they always give you two opposing sides, to politics or what a president just said, or whatever.  Everything is given to us on a plate.  And we donít really participate in anything, see.


Jackie: And weíve talked about this, many, many times, havenít we. 


Alan: Yeah, and so therefore, if you truly want to break out of the system, you have to take the responsibility of having a purpose now.  You have a purpose.  Most people who donít really know whatís wrong, will be told by the system, that itís themselves thatís wrong.  Therefore they go to psychiatrists or councilors or therapy meetings or group meetings and so on, and yet, still inside thereís an emptiness there, and itís because they have no purpose.  No real reason for being.  And that gnaws away at them.  So, when you break out of the box, and you realize, wait a minute, you can be quite correct with what youíre saying, as a minority of one.  You donít need the majority vote here, or the majority conclusions, and so itís alright to be different from the rest.  And youíve broken free. And you are breaking free.  And you take the consequence, yeah.  You might be lonely at times, but thereís an added benefit, because now your mind is totally free.  And it becomes more free all the time.  The more you want to hang on to things, the more it will hold you back.  The more depressed youíll become on and off, and youíll go through a roller coaster, until you understand that you donít belong to the same people any more.  Youíve moved on.


Jackie: And the spiritual side of that individual, that is the beginning of the development. 


Alan: Itís a road, yep.  Itís a road.  And sometimes it doesnít seem clear.  But, if the tragedies happen, the hope happens as well, and the reality of the fulfillment of the hope happens.  As I say, you have mountains and valleys, and each time, your mind really expands with understanding, and you think youíve reached the top of a mountain, youíre down in a valley again to digest it for a while, before you go up the next mountain.  Thereís so much to know. 


Jackie: Thatís like being the little, the big frog in the little pond, and then when you come to a new understanding, youíre like the little tiny frog in a great big huge pond. 


Alan: Thatís right.


Jackie: Yes.


Alan: And so, youíve got to, itís a matter of leaving behind and taking the risks.  Leaving behind all that was to become something that will be.  And the choice is yours, but you have to let go of many things too.


Jackie: Yes.  And Iím going to repeat what you said, is that, there are people, right now, who are breaking out of that.  And it is the beginning of their journey.  And that was, Iím not sure that I express myself in the way that.  Well, I grope for words, Alan.  But when we were talking about people being on different paths or different levels.  I donít know the words that would be appropriate there, but you just said it, and I appreciate that.  That everybody is on, just awakening, opening their eyes, itís just an ongoing and ongoing process, and there are many different stages of that.


Alan: Yeah.  And thatís what Iím saying.  Sometimes you get a glimpse of a higher truth, that can be almost overwhelming, and thatís the reward that youíve really sought.  And it comes in different periods and each one is worth all that you think you may have lost.  But by that time, anyway, you know that youíve really lost nothing at all.  Youíve gained far more than most people.  And as I say, youíve overcome the world, a tremendous breakthrough.  Tremendous breakthrough.  Tremendous.  Against all odds.


Jackie: Are you saying that that very beginning is overcoming the world, because that first step is taken, Alan? 


Alan: When, youíve cast off everything and reevaluated everything, because you have, youíve changed.  Once youíve changed completely, you will see everything differently, everything. 


Jackie: Yes.


Alan: You would have a deeper insight into yourself.  Into why you used to think this way, even about acquaintances or loved ones and so on, but, at the same time, youíve now broken through and left them.  It made be sad to say, but youíve left them.  And you must go on from there, and go higher.


Jackie: And maybe weíve let them, or maybe the separation just happened. 


Alan: Yeah, you know, itís a separation. 


Jackie: And thereís just one more, and once again, Iíll ask your forgiveness when I ask this question, it isnít to be argumentative, but to get in my mind the cognitiveness, of this message.  Because, you said, a couple or three times, when people begin to suddenly awaken, the spiritual side then will begin to develop, and then, in the past, and at other times, everybody doesnít have spirit. We have to call it to us.


Alan: Itís something that comes to you.  And itís not channeling or even asking for something to come to you.


Jackie: Itís just something that is within.


Alan: You know, that thereís a knowledge coming closer and closer as you seek the same thing, youíre seeking it, itís coming closer and closer.  And as I say, when you die to the old world system, and itís old values, and indoctrinations, then it happens much quicker.  Not everybody can pass everything on.


Jackie: The differentiation that I hope to make here, is because you had said on one program, not Sweet Liberty, that there is a spirit thatís made for everybody, but we have to call it.


Alan: Thatís what they always called your, your true soul mate is what they used to call it.


Jackie: And then you said, spirit doesnít always come to everybody.


Alan: Thatís right.


Jackie: Well, do you.  What does that mean?  Does that mean that thereís something.


Alan: It doesnít come, because you see, not everybody is honest about the thing in the first place, honest with themselves.


Jackie: No, weíre talking about people who are calling spirit to them, and spirit doesnít always come.


Alan: Yeah, and you donít have to call it that either, you can call it anything you want.  Itís wisdom.  Itís something much bigger than all of this.  Much, much bigger.  Itís not traditional channeling or spirit guides, or stuff like that.


Jackie: No, Iím not talking about that Alan.


Alan: Itís way beyond all of that, and itís always been the same in every age.


Jackie: And it is within each and every one of us.


Alan: Itís, the innate capacity would be there.


Jackie: Yes, that would be it, wouldnít it?


Alan: Would be there, however thereís also choice of the physical, and the physical person as well has a personality.  And most choose never to go in that direction.


Jackie: In what direction?


Alan: To seek something bigger.  The other part.


Jackie: Oh, no, but I was talking about those who were seeking. 


Alan: Yeah, they truly are seeking, and theyíve been honest with themselves, because you canít get it, it wonít happen, it wonít happen unless you can stand back and look at yourself, and your whole life, and everything youíve ever done in your life.  It wonít happen otherwise.


Jackie: And thatís like calling something into us that isnít there.  Thatís going to make a choice.


Alan: That would be another way, yeah.


Jackie: Thatís going to make a choice whether weíre going to get it or not.  See, thatís kind of a hopelessness, isnít it Alan.


Alan: Itís hopeless for people like that.


Jackie: Is it?


Alan: You canít take who you are with you, with the guarantees that you will be you.


Jackie: But somebody who dotes on you, and everything you say, and theyíre truly wanting truth, and theyíre seeking and theyíre calling, and they hear, well, spirit doesnít always come.  And you know what, Iíve talked to people who have gotten very upset with wondering, is spirit going to come when they call.  Weíre out of time.


Alan: You canít whistle for it, no.


Jackie: I know.


Alan: No.  It will come when you are honest with yourself.


Jackie: It will come.


Alan: When you are honest with yourself and about yourself.



Alan's Materials Available for Purchase and Ordering Information:


"Cutting Through"
  Volumes 1, 2, 3


"Waiting for the Miracle....."
Also available in Spanish or Portuguese translation: "Esperando el Milagro....." (Español) & "Esperando um Milagre....." (Português)


Ancient Religions and History MP3 CDs:
Part 1 (1998) and Part 2 (1998-2000)


Blurbs and 'Cutting Through the Matrix' Shows on MP3 CDs (Up to 50 Hours per Disc)


"Reality Check Part 1"   &   "Reality Check Part 2 - Wisdom, Esoterica and ...TIME"